Do a little bit of exploratory research about Ruby Payne and her book "A Framework for Understanding Poverty." If you do a google search or a google scholar search, you will quickly see that her ideas are both widespread and quite controversial. Share something that you discovered about her work. You are welcome to provide some commentary on what you share, but it is not required.
Talia:
ReplyDeleteThe asset-based approach shows up through their focus on culturally responsive teaching. This is when teachers are encouraged to view students' cultural backgrounds, experiences, and languages as strengths. Teaching this way allows students to maintain a comfortable learning environment that will enable them to make meaningful connections and learning more comfortable. By using a student's native language in the classroom, you can affirm their identities, boost their morale, and encourage them to share with the class rather than exclude them. However, there are still hints of deficit thinking, especially regarding achievement gaps. Using standardized test scores as a measurement tool can overlook systemic barriers that deepen disparities. This can make it look like marginalized students are simply underperforming rather than requiring more resources or help.
Ruby Payne’s framework on poverty and education offers some valuable insights, but its narrow focus on individual behaviors overlooks the broader structural disparities that shape educational outcomes. By attributing student struggles primarily to the "hidden rules" of class, Payne risks promoting deficit thinking rather than addressing systemic inequities like underfunded schools, discriminatory policies, and lack of access to resources. True educational reform requires acknowledging how race, class, and systemic barriers create unequal opportunities, not just teaching students to adapt to middle-class norms.
DeleteYuritzy Martinez :):
ReplyDeleteRuby paynes ideas of "behavior related to poverty" is insane to me. Her examples she gave like "cheating or stealing" , "physical fighting", and "disrespectful to teacher" are a little snippets of many that she wrote that basically stereotyped students bahavior based on their "poverty". This idea shows she limits her own perception against students and labels students in one catagory based on their wealth.
Riley Baber-
ReplyDeleteWhen reading about her views it seems like she blames people for their circumstances, and I don't see anything where she is addressing ways to overcome or even address systematic changes. It's really crazy to me that her work is used in the education system.
Mia :)
ReplyDeleteThe thing that stood out to me about Ruby Payne's views was that she claims that children growing up in poverty do not succeed because they are taught the "hidden rules of poverty" rather than the hidden rules of being middle class. Essentially blaming individuals for their own circumstances. Overall she seems very harsh.
Claire Cook:
ReplyDeleteRuby Payne's message is that poverty is not strictly related to money. On a surface level, this idea could be understandable, but the more I read about what she actually means by this, the worse it gets. She says there is a direct connection between children who grow up in poverty, to the inability to be successful, which is insane.
When finding out about Ruby Payne and what she had to say, I was in complete shock or disbelief. Everything she says is based on personal observations and not true facts. Another thing that also baffled me, was that she did not mention or speak about racial and cultural diversity, which plays a big role in this specific topic. And lastly, I believe she blamed the poor for how things are, instead of addressing systematic issues, like wage inequality, housing, and healthcare.
ReplyDeleteCady Ayers
ReplyDeleteRuby Payne’s book focuses on the idea of “hidden rules” that are within the different socioeconomic classes. Hidden rules are “unspoken norms, values, and behaviors that are passed down through generations and determine how people interact, build relationships, and navigate life.” After reading this definition, I began to understand and believe the concept of hidden rules. But, after reading more into Payne’s ideas, I’ve found the controversial aspect to be apparent. She says that educators can help students in poverty succeed by teaching them the hidden rules of the middle class– very much a deficit based approach. At this point, it does just seem like she’s putting all of the different classes into different boxes. Families who face financial struggles could surely understand each other for they are both in poverty, but that doesn't mean that there's one singular solution for everyone who is in the lower class.
After a VERY quick look at Ruby Payne's work, I learned that she describes societal levels by having "hidden rules" at each level. Meaning that poverty, middle class, high class, etc., all have their own "hidden rules" about how they live their lives and regulate on a daily basis. Whilst this could be true, I think that she takes it to an extreme how, those in poverty can never leave poverty because basically, they don't know anything else. I'd like to take a deeper dive into her thinking, because it's absurd to think that people can't change their economic and social class just based on "hidden rules".
ReplyDeleteJordan Dent: Ruby Payne’s concept of "hidden rules of class" helps explain how different socioeconomic backgrounds shape behavior and decision-making, which can be useful for educators trying to understand their students’ experiences. However, there does seem to be an oversimplified version of poverty with a focus too much on individual behaviors and blaming a person/ their group, rather than systemic issues. There is a promotion of assimilation (for example the adoption of middle-class norms among lower class people) rather than addressing the structural barriers, which just seems counterproductive. It seems her research relies heavily on personal observations so it does bring into concern biases and validity.
ReplyDeleteCharlie:
ReplyDeleteHaving worked in business and finance I can tell you that much of what Ruby discusses is true. Ideas of unconscious bias go out the window when you are talking about handing over your hard earned dollars. And it’s not about race, it was always about class. Part of my job was coaching people on how to signal that you are somebody who can be trusted with money to upper middle class and high net worth families. Ruby makes some good key points for education:
1. Resources Beyond Finances: She broadens the definition of resources to include emotional, mental, spiritual, physical, and social capital, not just financial means. Payne argues that a lack of these resources, not only money, adds to the challenges faced by those in poverty.
2. Education and Middle-Class Norms: Payne asserts that schools typically run on middle-class norms and values, which can leave students from poverty feeling out of place if they’re unfamiliar with these expectations. She suggests educators need to recognize this gap and teach students the “rules” required to thrive in school and work.
3. Practical Strategies for Educators: Her writing offers hands-on advice for teachers, like building strong relationships with students, teaching formal language skills (instead of casual speech), and understanding why some behaviors—like choosing fun over long-term goals—are common among those in poverty.
While Ruby Payne offers some insight and analysis between the intersection of poverty and education, her lack of accountability, particularly regarding work ethic in schools has contributed to the ultimate perpetual cycle of the “culture of poverty,” as not distinctly a result of economic conditions or the inevitable fate of where an individual was born and the environmental conditions they were brought up in, but of cultural attitudes such as the "hidden rules of class," through a deficit mindset sort of thinking. However, her argument falls short regarding how poverty and classism essentially operate in America by projecting a narrowed view or narrative onto a group of people, inadvertently overlooking the systemic issues that lead to this culture of crisis.
ReplyDelete-Nida
ReplyDelete"Payne’s work centers on supporting teachers and school leaders in educating poor students, and the critiques include its reliance on deficit thinking (Valencia, Citation2009), use of stereotypical depictions of people of color and people in poverty (Bomer et al., Citation2008), and failure to consider systemic and structural inequities (Gorski, Citation2006)."
ReplyDeleteDanny Trainham:
ReplyDeleteI learned that Ruby Payne's book, "A Framework for Understanding Poverty," highlights hidden rules between different socioeconomic classes and discusses strategies for bridging the gap. Although I have not read the book, her views on generational poverty are considered controversial because they rely on stereotypes and have a "blaming the victim" mentality.
emma finn-
ReplyDeleteRuby Payne's work is very overgeneralized and it is based on stereotypes. specifically that people in poverty's homes are "noisy, disordered, and unkempt"
While reading about Ruby Payne's work you can tell she doesn't understand what it is like to live in poverty. You can tell that she is very stereotypical and views poverty in a very close-minded way, it seems like maybe she has had some experiences with seeing how some people in poverty live and made that how the whole community lives.
ReplyDeleteAlistair here: Ruby Payne's idea of understanding poverty in relation to education reminds me of Paulo Freire and his work of critical pedagogy, both looking at influences and factors outside of the classroom that no doubt impacts a student and adults' ability to learn and grow. I used the article published by herself, titled: Understanding and Working with Students and Adults from Poverty. Her key points addressed in the article being: 1. "poverty is relative." I understand this nuance, knowing that there is a large gap between being destitute and a billionaire, and that everyone stands in need of something that can variably occupy their minds with stress, distracting them from education. 2. "Poverty occurs among people of all ethnic backgrounds and in all countries." This is important to bear in mind, because in my perspective, just being a white male doesn't solve all my financial issues, nor does it for the millions of white males that are homeless in the USA. In points 3 and 4, she continues in the context that creates poverty, showing the continuous line of wealth created by capitalism that breeds generational wealth and poverty, and that situational poverty is much more prevalent than wealth. Points 5 and 6 discuss the systems that breed the class system, as well as the patterns that favor the wealthy and defeat the poor in a cruel cycle. Her final points address understanding these hidden rules and educating our people on how to overcome these often-invisible hurdles, teaching success and being aware of the context that each person walks into class with daily. I especially hold these ideas as impactful, encouraging the growth of an individual and their lifestyle rather than the memorization of facts or passing of tests. Afterall, education is about creating a well-rounded human being, not a well-groomed student.
ReplyDeleteI think the controversy of her ideas is very interesting; I think it's important that she gets an outside perspective or approach a critique of her work with humility so she can understand the harm that she is inherently doing. I understood it once I saw the difference in the two diagrams; it's so evident that she is judgemental and has a negative idea of people in poverty. One diagram is nice and neat, the other is jumbled and crooked. It's very biased and incorrect. And it harmfully reinforcing negative stereotypes of black people, which is the "feel good" part about the reaction to this book--it makes people who believe in this framework feel validated. Very harmful.
ReplyDeleteElise Ginn-
ReplyDeleteI see her views as someone who has never experienced poverty and she classifies poor people in a way that someone with no experience would. She also stereotypes people in an unfair and very disturbing way. She compares success to their stance whether poor or middle class or poor. She says that determines how successful someone is.
Tola Reasons
ReplyDeleteShe introduces the idea of "hidden rules", which are unspoken norms and behaviors that are different between economic classes. She says that understanding these rules can help educators connect better with students from low-income backgrounds. However, in class we talk about how this is bad because it oversimplifies poverty and reinforces stereotypes.
Franky Mattos
ReplyDeleteRuby Payne in her book "A Framework for Understanding Poverty" tries to separate poverty in two sections, situational poverty and generational. Upon reading one can see how she places blame on those in poverty by not saving what they have to be able to do more with it for later. She also has written check-lists all listing things from each class and if one can relate to them then they are either impoverished, middle class, or rich. Only that the checklist is seeded with racial stereotypes or insane things regular people could never think to achieve (for example flying in a private plane).